I hold these truths to be self-evident.

1. The Constitution is sex.
2. The Constitution means what it means and that's it.
3. Feelings (including religion) have no place in government, but I do not trust a politician who does not have religion.

More stuff/rants... lalalaalaaala :?

U.S. to fight Pledge of Allegiance ruling!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/16/pledge.appeal.ap/index.html


Subject: Fwd:As Americans we should defend our country


--------------------------------------------------------------

Story in Tampa Newspaper

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we
continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other
countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of
Choice?????? Think about it . .

All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I
celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we
can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings.
It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break Isn't it amazing how
this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone
so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I
am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with
that. This says it all!

This is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT. I am tired of this nation
worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their
culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a
surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust
from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct"
crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was
offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who
is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost
entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few
things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently
some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a
multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and
our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own
society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been
developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by
millions of men and women who have sought freedom.


We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
of our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian
men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this
is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the
walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our
culture.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are
happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY,
our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen
the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every
opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and
griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of
life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American
freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE. It is Time for America to Speak UP...

:x

I stopped saying the pledge in 10th grade because I had a CHOICE. Oops.

Ok, just some quick observations:

The constitution is not "sex" .. It has flaws and further, instead of trusting only those politicians who hold religious convictions, how about trusting none of them?

As long as we're talking about the foundation of America -- It began LONG before 1789 with the drafting of the Constitution. The "formal" foundation I suppose was with the Declaration of Independence in 1776 and contrary to popular belief, the "massive failure" of the Articles of Confederation led our new nation from that date, through our first major war, for more than 10 years before the Feds decided they needed to make their first big power grab with the constitution.

Further, this country has no national language. It is not English. It is also not Spanish, French or anything else. As a FREEDOM-LOVING, and UNHYPOCRITICAL, American, we have to accept that people are different.. People adhere to differing social norms and speak different languages. It's staunchly anti-freedom to suggest that you should essentually FORCE immigrants to assimilate culturally while simultaneously professing the rights America is supposed to represent.

As for the pledge of allegiance, I abhor the concept of forced patriotism. Again, as an american we have no obligation to "stand and salute the flag" -- on the contrary. It's our explicit right and choice NOT to do any such thing. The argument would be better if it focused on the entire situation, as I describe next, instead of simply the latter: "uncle sam" forcably taxing the entire country, maintaining a monopoly on education and then dictating "democratically-approved" rules on how that ought to be regulated.

Nobody has the right to tell you can or you cant salute the flag, but you also have no right in my wallet to pay for you or your childrens education-- especially if it means implicitly supporting a religious or political belief that I may or may not agree with. THAT is what America is all about.

It's sad to see so many people so hopelessly misled about what America really means..

:shock: wow, someone who actually utitilizes the capacity of reason.

what a refreshing suprise :)

To hear people chant and rant about how American "freedoms" give them the right to do this or not to do that, one has to wonder why they would NOT want to salute the flag, if they're so excited about the freedoms they've been given to NOT salute the flag.

A desire for freedom is what created our country. Now people want freedom without any controls whatsoever. Extremist freedom is destroying our nation.

As free Americans, everyone has the right to be a non-patriotic, war-protesting, flag-burning, anti-Christian, 10-commandment-banning, non-english-speaking pain in the ass. Does it make us a better, stronger nation to exercise those freedoms? I think not.

Freedom gave us this country, and freedom is ripping it apart. The very thing that brought our forefathers together is being used to tear us apart.

Saying the pledge in school didn't damage me. It won't damage my children. Those schools are funded by American tax dollars, so why shouldn't they say the pledge? I know why. Because we're no longer "one nation under God". We're a bunch of Godless, mindless, freedom-chanting heathens more concerned with flexing our freedoms than coming together as a team.

Maybe the Muslim radicals are right. We are becoming a F*CKING worthless evil society with no real identity.

Everyone's right to be an individual does not have to be given-up in order for us to participate in "team" activities. People go to work in large companies and they go to big corporate sponsored meetings and they'll all wear shirts with the company logo on them. Some of those people are the same ones that wouldn't wear a shirt with an American flag on it.

It's not a freedom issue. It's a "team" issue. It's almost "family".

Yes people should know english if they want to be able to function as a useful part of our society. Why is that such a horrible concept? Why is it a terrible thing that they speak english? Is it more reasonable to expect everyone else to learn 14 languages so they can buy a pack of cigarettes at a Quickie-Mart? F*CK that. Habib and Ahmed and Quan Tang can learn enough english to understand "hang me the F*CKING money, shitbag!" or they'll get shot like anyone else.

AMEN BROTHER! 8)

Corpse for ElPresidente!!!11!1!



Dude, your confused... :?

Corpse, whether it damaged you is currently debatable ;)

I dont think exercising *virtually* uncontrolled freedom is tearing us apart. And even if it were, that is a worthwhile price for our freedom.

BTW, yes, it is absolutely in a foreigners best interest to know the "primary" (but not mandated) language of a given country to facilitate communication and especially business.. But it's not an issue to force.

And not to continue a flame war, I really dont think it's *ME* who is confused. Everything I've cited (and could continue to cite) is fully and completely historically accurate, and logically valid. Perhaps my ideology is not as well known as what modern politicians exercise, but that does make me 'confused.'

I further don't believe such a blatant ad hominem attack was called for. However, I will take it as a admission that you are unable to argue factually for your position and that I win. :lol:

Politics are dumb, this is how it works.

If you have money, you win.

Don't get me wrong, I love this country, but it's as simple as that.

that is VERY true. the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. that's why the rich people dont pay as high of taxes and the poor do. its bullshit. same goes for the military....i dont know about the army, maybe Soldier or Jinxie can fill me in on this...but in the Navy and Marines...if you arent an E-7 or above, you dont mean shit to them. All of us E-6 and belows...we're just the peon's (spelling??) that get them their coffee and shit like that. same concept as the way to world works....i'm still all drugged up...so it might not make sense...but i dont know. it was worth a try.

I fixed your comment there, Strange. I know everyone's going to bitch at me for it, but believe it or not, successful, rich people didn't get there by complaining about Mexicans stealing their jobs or by having class envy. They got there by proving that they had the skills and the motivation to do a job.

"But what about the ones who are born into money, piss, moan, bitch, whine." Well, obviously their parents didn't bitch or envy their neighbors or anything like that, so their children can afford to live well. They still have to get a job and work at it.

"But what about Paris Hilton, piss, moan, bitch, whine." Who gives a shit?

THEY TOOK OUR JAHBS!

HAHAHA!

icmp, don't take my post as a personal attack. I have nothing against you, brother. I was speaking out against the theories, not the messenger. It's not like you're the only person in the world that feels the way you feel. I was making my statements against "the movement" and not against you as a person.

Just because I'm right and you're horribly wrong doesn't mean I can't still like you.

When paying that price costs us our freedom, then I would argue that the price is too high...

... and I would win.

Angry Kitten, I can't remember the last time I went to star bucks, or Barnes and Noble (especially to study, or "hang out" with my 'emo' friends), I don't drink coffee, I'm not rich, I didnt know who the F*CK Michael Foucault was until you said that, and I never derided Durango for not having "facts" to back up his "opinion" .. I simply challenged why he would start an entire *political* thread, and when I challenge his opinion with my own (with my own facts) he would simply resort to a personal attack. *shrug* Thanks for stereotyping me, though! ass

Corpse, I could never take any of your comments as a personal attack ;) I've known you too long to misconstrue what you say like that :lol: But thanks for turning my own argument against me so easily you old bastard :mrgreen:

BTW, I absolutely agree with strange that politics is dumb..

And in conclusion, GMAN comes to the rescue with something we can all agree with:

THEY TOOK OUR JAHBS :lol:

quote:

Originally posted by Gman:
THEY TOOK OUR JAHBS!



lol gman. I loved that south park episode.

I actually find it humorous that freedom is what is tearing us apart. Mankind is such a stupid animal.

Pledging to the flag probably didn’t harm you, but if I had children im not sure I would want them to be forced to do so.

My best friend has a 10 yr old daughter and I recently went to a school play/musical they put on. The musical had a patriotic theme.
They were signing a lot of the old songs we used to sing as kids in school. I recognized a lot of them. Now that I'm old enough to know that a lot of what I was taught in school was either straight out false or only half the story, I was appauled at some of the lyrics.
One of the songs was called "elbow room" and it talked America being founded and how we spread west because we needed more elbow room.
I was horrified. What kind of bullshit is that? We didn’t "find" America and we didn’t need more "elbow room". The rest of the world invaded a country and slaughtered their way through the west in one of the greatest acts of genocide that has ever taken place in order to capture a territory of land.

Now whether or not that kind of behavior is just or unjust is a totally different argument all together. But the fact remains that my daughter's head was being filled with lies and bullshit in a public school while waving a flag.

Sugar coating the hell out of everything and burying history is making this country weak; the fact that we don’t adapt as a society but rather insist that everything adapts to us will be a downfall for this country.
We are raising a generation of fat lazy uneducated under informed drones and the rest of the world will continue to evolve and we will loose our position of a super power.
We can have all the nukes we want but if the global economy shifts out of our favor b/c we have been lazy and stubborn then they won’t mean shit.

I don’t care if people pray to a stick or salute a flag, I just think we need not be so deluded by rhetoric such as "freedom" and "democracy" that we sit idly by as the rest of the world advances us.

Go to Europe. Most people know 3-5 languages and can speak English as well, if not better than I can. They are also much more informed than most Americans about our own politics. And above that, many of them are even acutely aware of other nations and their politics.


Eh, that's my 2 cents for today

.-.

http://www.rense.com/general61/losing.htm

http://www.us-english.org/inc/

http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

http://www.faithstreams.com/sites/pledge-of-allegiance.htm

"I pledge allegiance to United Turtles of America and to the fruit bats of Borneo, one planet in the Milky Way, incredible, with justice and black bean burritos for all." :P

http://pledgeqanda.com/

http://www.founding.com/timeline/index.cfm

So you want an educated factual response eh. In my opinion, you are still young and have more to learn. I think I could debate you on what you consider "completely historically accurate, and logically valid" or why you "don't believe such a blatant ad hominem attack was called for." I never attacked you or said anything you said was false, I merely said you were/are confused, and how is that blatant?. I too used to have on blinders and thought I was wise beyond my years. You assume to much what I or others actually think or intended.

If you refer to the above link on timeline, you will see a fairly accurate accounting of events leading up to and past the initial founding of America. I could quote you dates and wars (imperial versus mercantilist) and facts about such like

"The French and Indian War was in part a mercantilist war. Mercantilism is the practice of using the power of government to control the economy in the hope and expectation of increasing the wealth of one nation. It is not a device for increasing the wealth of nations generally but of a single nation. The method of mercantilism is monopolistic. (A monopoly is an exclusive privilege to develop or trade in some good or product.) By gaining and granting monopolies to those people and companies whom they control, governments hope to increase the wealth at their disposal." blah blah blah...

and it's eventual influence on our democracy.

I will bet you the founding fathers and then American population did not hold the same equality and fairness coupled with anti-authority/anti-government sentiment that you now hold on "what America is all about"

Nobody, especially me said anything about 1789 or 1776 or inferred which documents our early country was guided and governed under etc.. Nor did I imply that these documents were without flaws. I actually feel the documents were a good start and do a fairly good job of keeping civility in an often mad mad world. America is not perfect and in fact still needs much improvement in many areas. We have changed how women and minorities are treated under these amendments to name a couple of milestones. It's still a relatively young country with more growing pains, failures and successes to come. Religion does play a huge role in how a person’s morals and character are developed and shaped. Religion played a huge role back then and as you will surely come to learn, it will play a huge role now and in the future (as long as you shall live) and to deny it is useless.

Nobody (but you) said anything about forcing anyone. It is about choice, for all parties. Nobody is going to force anyone to stand and pledge, but many who want to can, majority rules. Corpse hit it on the head about the team or family concept. Those like yourself can choose not to stand and make that pledge, and natural consequences will shape that persons relationships, morality and related perspectives. The other lemmings will group together and sing the silly songs in Sammie’s post. :P

"I abhor the concept of forced patriotism. Again, as an American we have no obligation to "stand and salute the flag" -- on the contrary. It's our explicit right and choice NOT to do any such thing. The argument would be better if it focused on the entire situation, as I describe next, instead of simply the latter: "uncle sam" forcably taxing the entire country, maintaining a monopoly on education and then dictating "democratically-approved" rules on how that ought to be regulated." This whole blurb is just wack in so many ways...... :?

"I will take it as a admission that you are unable to argue factually for your position and that I win". You won nothing.

"I simply challenged why he would start an entire *political* thread, and when I challenge his opinion with my own (with my own facts) he would simply resort to a personal attack". "Dude, your confused" is not a personal attack, something like F*CK you, you douche bag is (just an example :) ). When did you challenge me on this thread?, you were no challenge, just an opportunity to expose this type of narrow minded thinking. :P

Oh Snap!

hopelessly misled...

Owned

OK, so instead of patriotic teachings in school, we should teach our children that we're founded by blood-thristy land mongers that slaughtered entire civilizations to get whatever our greedy hearts desire.

That will sure make them grow up to be a lot better "team" players.

And who are we to ciritisize "fat, lazy" kids? How cruel are you to taunt the "weight challenged, metabolism impaired" anyway? They can't help it. We need to increase taxes on the wealthy and create couseling programs for those under-skinny, over-relaxed citizens.

Life is full of lies. Politics is almost nothing BUT lies and twisted truth. To develop the next generation and make it as good or better than the last generation, is it really better to teach them thing like "genocide" and "Jimmy has two dads and that's OK"?

Children don't need the truth. Children need training and development that will guide them to be productive and useful additions to our society. The truth will depress them and make them fat and lazy.