I read an email the other day that really put things in perspective. I know many of you will not take the time to read it but for those who care enough to take the time... here it is. 8)

SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID:

Things that make you think a little.......

1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq

during the month of January.....In the fair city of

Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of

January. That's just one American City, about as

deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.



2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have

started this war, state the following .



FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never

attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000

lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.



Truman...finished that war and started one in

Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953,

55,000 lives were lost, an a! verage of 18,334 per year.



John F. Kennedy....started the Vietnam conflict in

1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned

Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000

lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.



Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or

French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was

offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three

times by Sudan a! nd did nothing. Osama has attacked

us on multiple occasions.



3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us

President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed

the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear

inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without

firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who

slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.



The Democrats are complaining about how long the war

is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq

than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian

compound. That was a 51-day operation.



We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons

in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton

to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.



It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy

the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police

after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.



Wait, there's more......................



Some people still don't understand why military

personnel do what they do for a living. This

exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator

Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a

pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a

good example of one man's explanation of why men and

women in the armed services do what they do for a

living. This is a typical, though sad, example of

w! hat some who have never served think of our military.



JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13


Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you

run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"


Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States

Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.

My plane was hit by antiaircraft fire on 12 different occasions.

I was in the space program.



It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line.

It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take

the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with

me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital

and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye,

and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me t! o

the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows

and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and

you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads

didn't hold a job.



You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington

National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd

like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.



You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you

tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you,

Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of

your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN -

who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication ! to a

purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty

that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice

is what made this country possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum
was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA

If you can read this, thank a teacher.... If you are reading

it in English thank a Veteran.


Regarding past presidents waging war with stats on cost, deaths and durations etc and Bush doesn't even make the top 5 in relationship to those war decisions and loss of life. For many years I thought I was a Democrate (Wifes a die hard Rep) and had never voted until this last election (couldn't see John Kerry being effective, even though Bush can't talk to save his life...). I am all for helping the helpless, saving the environment and all but the past 10 years I have begun to see past political parties and try to look at individuals and current circumstances.

Seems the Democrates have less on the ball (little slower then Republicans) and are more willing to be nice and friendly which is great in a perfect world, but not what this country needs now when evil is running rampant. You think 9/11 or Katrina was bad, the worst is yet to come...

All politicians and parties suck, but now we have to make a choice (the better of two evils) cause if you sit idle and don't vote, we will lose our asses in more ways than one...

I kinda draw an analogy to the Bucs former football coach Tony Dungy. Tony is the nicest most caring politically correct person with terrific skills, but he lacked the arrogance and hard ass motivational tactics to get the Bucs to the superbowl. Gruden comes in opens a can of whoopass and get's it done. But I don't think Gruden won the superbowl as it was all of Dungy's work ethics and character building that got the team ready, but it was Grudens hard ass approach that pushed them to the top...

I guess in the end it takes both parties to get er done, but ya gotta have the right coach at the right time...

thanks for sharing this durango it is very intresting i enjoyed it.

First off, you're in tampa? whereabouts? goddamn I didnt know there were 3 (?) n00bs from here. And on top of that, you F*CKING joined the forum on my birthday. Un-fucking-believable. hah

Secondly, I agree with most of what was said about previous presidents and history.. however I think what was said about Bush is not as harsh as the former statements and nowhere near as much as could be said. It ignores many of the negative aspects of these last 4-5 years and instead focuses on the (subjectively) "positive" things.. That makes it misleading and IMHO discredits the entire assertion that, essentually, "bush is right and bush (can do)/did no wrong"

Now, I voted for Bush in 2000 (the first election where I was eligible) and was *planning* on it in 2004 until I started questioning the blatant hypocrisy and read into the Libertarian platform (I wound up voting Badnarik).. As an aside, I plan on abstaining from sanctioning this kind of nonsense in the future..

Basically, I disagree that any person or president has the authority to, at their discretion, send countless (130,000+) people to *die* for transient reasons.. Whether it be WMDs (that we helped saddam acquire in the 80s), or some guys idea of "freedom" (the kind where baghdad is surrounded by barbed wire fence and people get to vote on how other people can live their lives.. yay!) .. its just unjustifiable. Not even mentioning how the government insists on executing it through essentually legalized theft (taxation)

Not trying to start a huge, drawn out flame war (but, hey, you started it! :lol:) .. To put it simply, the government sucks and the best venues to "save the environment" (F*CK the EPA), or "spread liberty" are on your own or through voluntary means.. not coercive ones.

First, yes I read it. Second, I worked over the summer at an organization called MASSPIRG, which stands for Massachusetts Public Interest Research Group. Needless to say that after 2 months of walking door to door telling people that Mass, the state with the toughest regulations in the country, needs to add more and I realized just how corrupted even a NON-profit organization can be.

Yes, that organization was liberal beyond a doubt, CLAIMED to be non-partisan but that was complete bull because clearly in our speach we state that Bush is not doing his job as president. At first I was republican, than I switched completely and was liberal, actually voted for that kerry fellow, but now I don't really give a rats ass.

I guess what I'm trying to say is vote for the guy that you like the most, not the most politically potent or influential man, but the guy you think is just simply the coolest most NORMAL human being. Thats why I say, John McCain for 2008. He goes on The Daily Show a lot, that makes him super cool in my book :lol:

Oh, shit. *F*CK* mccain. Making fun of his dumbass ideology doesn't negate ... his dumbass ideology.

As for the commonly mischaracterized "liberal" label -- the actual definition of it is this:

lib·er·al·ism (lĭb'ər-ə-lĭz'əm, lĭb'rə-) pronunciation n.
1. The state or quality of being liberal.
2.
1. A political theory founded on the natural goodness of humans and the autonomy of the individual and favoring civil and political liberties, government by law with the consent of the governed, and protection from arbitrary authority.
2. often Liberalism The tenets or policies of a Liberal party.
3. An economic theory in favor of laissez-faire, the free market, and the gold standard.

(http://www.answers.com)

So, it is both favoring the preservation of civil (and political) liberties AS WELL AS economic liberties. Classically speaking, by definition, the true "liberals" in this country are "best" (and not entirely) represented by the libertarian party exclusively.

Honestly, no government or 'representative' thereof can ever represent us as individuals .. and any vote for any person (even a libertarian) will to some extent infringe on our individual liberty.. so, the only real (and unhypocritical) way to further that is to abstain from voting and refrain from sanctioning such a system/government in the first place.

intreresting shit man


i just blew a few minutes in school reading this....amazingly this site is not blocked


w00t w00t

Too many words. Couldn't read it.

agreed.

WAY too many words. i saw how long it was and said F*CK it.

LOL me too.

Kinda hard to read when you dont know how to :D

What did I say... :?

:P

See? I didn't even get that far into it.

i have a lot to say but i wont be able to word it correctly and it'll be too long for everyone anywayz...

i'm glad we went to war with Iraq... even if it was not for the reasons most people wanted... the leaders were abusing their powers and living a life of luxury which they didn't deserve...

what i dont like is hearing of Americans dying... i'm impartial to any iraqi's dying becuz well idk i just dont care about other people...

whats worse is that my friend works at Tampa Veterans Affairs (VA) which is where pretty much any wounded personnel from the war ends up to get treated... from my understanding anyone injured in the war ends up there... she comes and tells me about all the 18,19,20 y/o kids who are paralyzed from the neck down, amputees, soldiers who suffered severe injuries in the face, and it totally pisses me off... i dont know the point of this except i'd like for everyone to come home now...

Thanks for that insight durango. I just wrote a paper on why i thought the war in Iraq had a cause, and why it had some right to it. But the teacher stomped me because she is a democrat and she is anti-iraq. .-. It pissed me off alot because i didn't know how to explain why i was right.

And Vision you are right, we want them to come home. But that means all those injured soldiers, and the soldiers that have died, did their duty for nothing. They were a wasted cause? maybe not i don't know. Just think about this though. When they signed up for the military they knew where they were going, and what they were going to be doing, hell they wanted to do it. My aunt's husband always told her that if he died over seas just remember that i wanted to do it for my country.

I'm writing an essay called "Cindy Shehan Needs Water Poured on Her Dried-Up Vagina." I should send a copy to your teacher, Ocelot.

That bitch needs to die and rot in hell. she acts like she's the only one to have lost a son or daughter in Iraq! F*CK her. i hope someone shoots her in the F*CKING head with a 50 cal. SOMEONE? ANYONE?!

I'll spell-check your essay for you. I'd hate for her to poor hot gravy all over your head and laugh at you.

Gman, stop editing my quotes to make it look like I don't have perfect spelling and grammar skills.