In case you're not following it as closely as I have been, the US House is set to vote on "ObamaCare" today.

Whether you agree with the legislation or not (I do not), the fact is that this it could really be a historic day for our country. One of the biggest pieces of social welfare legislation is at the verge of becoming law despite unanimous Republican opposition.

The legislation is estimated to cost 940 billion over 10 years, but that only includes what the government will be directly responsible for paying out. That estimate doesn't attempt to quantify the increased cost to the US taxpayer that will result when insurance companies raise their rates (the once proposed idea of being able to block insurance company rate hikes is not in this bill). They also were able to sneak the costs under the scary one trillion dollar mark by setting the tax increases to take effect immediately but setting the changes that require the costs to take effect in 4 years -- so basically the 940 billion over 10 years really only takes into account 6 years of expenses while it takes into account 10 years of tax increases.

If I didn't think calling your congressman was utterly useless, I would have posted this earlier last week, but they are all scumbags.

Anyway, the House is set to reconvene at 1pm EST -- stay tuned and cross your fingers.

EDIT 4:12 EST Congressman Bart Stupak (D-Mich), one of the Democrats holding out their "yes" vote on the Health Insurance bill (mainly due to the issue of public funding for abortions) just announced their decision to vote "yes" on the bill. This is an especially important announcement as Congressman Stupak was leading a group of 12, then earlier today 6 congressmen who were still holding out. Soon after Congressman Stupak's annoucement, another Democrat who was holding out followed suit and announced their decision to vote "yes". If the Dems don't have the votes, its unbelievably close.

shit.. lets see how this turns out.

I despise american legislature.

I'm not going to even attempt an argument with the Great Fomenta but I disagree. I believe that a nation has an obligation to make sure the health needs of its people are being met. As great of a nation as people say we are, as a whole we're one of the most unhealthy societies in the Free World. And most Americans could give two shits about it without realizing the implications on future generations.

I stopped trying to keep up with the various bills awhile ago and havent reviewed the most recent but national healthcare is an important step in the right direction. Usually I would say get it right first and then move forward but from a political standpoint that's impossible in this situation. Although this plan needs a lot of improvements I think it's still important it be passed. The fact that it has even gotten to this point with insurance companies spending millions of dollars in lobbyists and the total rejection of the idea from the Republicans speaks volumes. I actually applaud the Democrats for this is almost certainly political suicide for a lot of them.

Insurance premiums are increasing yearly as it is, with or without this bill. Thousands of people a day are losing their coverage, some for inexplicable reasons other than it would cost the insurance company too much money to keep them and these people have no where to turn.

Personally, I already have 'free' healthcare, including dental, so this bill has minimal impact on me from a coverage standpoint. Taxes, well that sux but that's what we get for living in this country. I've never liked the idea of paying for other people's healthcare when their drinking their liver to death, smoking their lungs to blackness and eating themselves to a coronary but it's now or never. The need to implement a change is now, in whatever form possible the ball needs to start rolling. Hopefully, a push for preventive health measures and an emphasis on stopping fraudulent activities will be encouraged greatly with this new bill and our so-called 'civilized' society can move forward.

I like your optimism, unfortunately the federal government has a pretty bad track record with being able to sustainably pay for anything close to this size (social security, medicare, etc.)

I agree that health insurance system can and should be improved -- but there are many other ways to go about it -- many of these alternatives don't include a federal takeover of anything.

Justice George Sutherland in his 1932 majority opinion in New State Ice Co. v Liebmann has a quote that sums up my philosophy on this:



But hey, if it passes, I hope it'll work out as good as people think it will.

Update, apparently Dems still don't have the votes because they're still delaying.

I never did get this whole spending money to pay for the money we owe thing

good news if this goes through.. its a step in the right direction to helping your supposedly amazing health care work better... bad news.... x100

half your country atleast is too mental to figure out how a socialized health care system works.. if thats where this eventually goes, so complaints aobut the improvements will be through the roof. happens up here all the time because people all seem to think theyre more important and sicker than someone who actually is. Also your culture is a long way from being able to handle the changes imposed by this bill, hell most of the politicians on the fence or against the bill are still arguing over abortion and wording about it. which makes me lol.

Are they trying to outlaw abortion? Lol.

I'd probably move to Canada if they did. I have a deep hatred of anyone who opposes the choice of abortion. If they outlaw it I might just move to Canada, because the US finally sucks worse than their hat.

excuse my ignorant ass for posting in here, but,

isn't this health care plan not really a gov't TAKEOVER that all these tea party ralliers (who are as ignorant as me) get all up in arms about? all these tea partier 'fox news is the unbridled truth' nut jobs are basically saying (paraphrasing) "I ALREADY HAVE GREAT HEALTH INSURANCE. I DONT WANT THAT TO GO AWAY. MYAA." when in fact, this health care plan will propose a gov't OPTION. Yes, an OPTION. Meaning, you can if you want to or need to, but you don't have to. Because here's what all the health insurance providers do: They practice whats called "reverse competition". This is when the executive groups from all these insurance companies get together and say "O.K., guys here's what we're gonna do. We're all gonna raise premiums, astronomically, all at the same time. That way, none of us lose out on business to another and we all make money off of the american public, hand over fist. BRILLIANT." So this gov't option (theres that word again) will hopefully put a stop to that.

thats my $0.02.

Canada, it's so much better

Not tryin to be a dick but you have no idea about anything you said.

PS - you're "government option" or the so-called "public option" didn't make it into the final bill - gg.

not exactly yeti.

There is no perfect system. No country has perfected their healthcare system. There is no system that will adequately address the needs of 300 million people in a society that revolves around capitalism. What is apparent is the system in place needs change and the government's inability to curb premium increases and stop people losing their coverage (1000s everyday) has forced us into this situation. It isn't going to be pretty for the next 10 years but eventually it should work out. If America has any chance of maintaining its status in the world throughout this century this better work out.

As far as abortion goes, the initial attempts to include it in some of the initial health bills was absurd and I can't believe they even attempted it. Apparently its still very prevalent in this bill as I'm watching CNN right now. As far as from the standpoint of a nation that prides itself on the civil rights of its individuals, federally funded/subsidized abortions is an affront to everything in which this nation stands for or at the very least pretends to stand for.

Personally, I firmly oppose any federal/state tax dollars to be used towards abortions other than those necessary to preserve the life of the mother or those involving a possibly incredibly challenged child. Yes, I think if there's a high probability your kids retarded/handicapped you should be able to abort it at any stage. Murder is murder, I don't care how you rationalize it and I don't care if you do it but call a spade a spade, don't hide behind a rationalized definition of freedom. Freedom comes with responsibility and accountability, the path in which this nation has been heading is that of no responsibility and no accountability. Contraposition anyone?

As Durango's firm opposite Mr.Mclefty; this portion of the last bill had me in arms. I do not support going giving cash for someones abortion but, unlike you vision, I support the feminist pro choice movement (for at least the first three months after that, might as well have the F*CKER).

I have no two cents on the rest of the whole health system argument, just the opinion on not having it completely in the hands of corporations to barter with people to cover their asses.

I'm excited to see what happens if it passes. It may fail, we may get set back a few years, but it also may be the start of what could become a great healthcare system.

If it doesn't pass, I won't be surprised, business as usual.

My dad's a doctor (not a money grubber, we're nowhere near rich) so my family is directly affected-- and none of us know how it'll go.

First post not in the Unban Request forum so hope it doesn't suck but....

Abortion - Any abortion which is sought for out of CONVENIENCE or CHOICE, should not be covered by government run health care. If it IS covered, then ANY plastic surgery, enhancement, or other cosmetic surgery should also be covered because they aren't necessary. The only time abortion (murder) is necessary is if the mother's life is threatened which isn't as common as it used to be and maybe in some cases of rape. As to it's legality, abortion is a moral issue anyway, and as such shouldn't fall under the government's power to outlaw. At least murder and theft have destabilizing impacts on society, if some crackwhore wants to go abort the kid her pimp gave her that's her choice, I may not like it but it's her choice.

Healthcare - I am TOTALLY against ANY government intrusion into the private sector. I am against ANY government bailout of private businesses or individuals for any reason. The main reason I feel that way is because where do you draw the line? Once you start helping out some, then why can't you help out another group? It's best, in my mind, to allow people to take care of themselves and allow the weak,lazy, incompetent, and otherwise unlucky to fail while those who have work ethics, are somewhat fortunate, and skilled will succeed.

Democrats - Will lose a TON of seats in the November elections. What remains to be seen is how active the newly empowered Republican party will be in repealing this insane legislation and refocusing on what our government SHOULD be doing, cutting government spending (mainly social aid programs, military spending, and other misc. expenses), reducing taxes, and encouraging business growth in this country. The more debt to China we can eliminate, the better. The fewer imports we buy and the more exports we sell, the better.

/end rant

I agree that Dems will probably get crushed this November but in their defense, the Democratic party was so cut-throat that were telling the fence-sitting Democrats that at the very least they will have no support come November, that is, if the Dems don't run someone against them!

The thing that still baffles me is that people who have never read a single article on the issue of the current bill (thats going to pass) agree with it blindly.

The fact about this bill is that it does not do anything most people think it does!

Does it give government any way to cap insurance companies hiking their rate? No!

Does it give insurance to anyone who doesn't have it? No! (at least not for the first four years!)

Does it setup a so-called "public option" where the citizens can buy insurance from the Federal Government? No! It simply doesn't.

Okay, so what does it do?

In 4 years, it subsidizes 60% of the newly insured with our tax dollars.

It requires individual citizens to purchase insurance from a 3rd party company or pay a fee! Has that ever been done before?

It requires small business to insure their workers if they employ 50 or more employees. This may sound good but how many companies will have to downsize (read: lay people off) to support this added government mandated burden?

It pays for a hospital in Connecticut because Chris Dodd was able to keep it in the bill.

Rates for the already-insured will sky-rocket when insurance companies are forced to cover everyone -- don't believe me? Fine, just wait a few months and tell me then I'm wrong.

And to top it off, it puts the IRS in charge of monitoring whether you're meeting the new requirements AND they have full access to your financial information to verify that you are, in fact, paying the bills you say you are!

---

People should be more up in arms than they are -- the fact is the bill didn't have popular support, the president is at an all time low in terms of approval rating yesterday and they passed the bill without a single vote from the Republican party. The fact that it lacked public support alone should be reason to kick these scumbags out in November.

The most sickening part of this for me was hearing people call into the various news stations and hear people saying they support the bill because they don't want to keep paying for health insurance -- what a joke -- get a job you scrub.

I'm all for fixing health insurance, but unfortunately, this comes no where close.

The requirement of private citizens to buy health insurance is grossly unconstitutional. I don't have health insurance right now because I can't afford it. But, I also haven't been to the doctor for sickness in over 5 years. I know I'm screwed if I need major surgery or a long hospital stay but that's a risk I'm willing to take at the moment. I am, at least, until I can afford decent coverage. But, again, it's MY choice. This idiotic legislation will try to remove that choice from me, which it legally cannot. (Or should not anyway)

Actually, your not screwed. No one can be denied medical treatment if admitted to the ER. This is the most expensive way to pay for health coverage and people without insurance who do this inadvertently raise the premiums of people who do have health insurance.

Your right Fomenta, this bill sux but like I said it's a move in the right direction

Vision, I know I can't be denied coverage, but I'd still have to pay for it. That is where the "I'm screwed" part comes in. I'm not a free loader. If I run up a bill or debt I'm going to pay for it. But you are right about the free loaders who run up bills by going to the ER for a simple runy nose or some other little thing and then don't pay for it.

I saw this quote from Fomenta after rereading his insightful post no sarcasm Fomenta here, it was a great post.

My thing is though this, in this day in age, how can someone expect for unity amongst the parties? Ideology wise they've become so F*CKING polar opposites; bipartisanship and the hope of it to come about is nothing more than a pipe dream. I feel that it shouldn't be expected or even mention that the other party has a good sum of votes for a bill that the other has made up. Our Congress has become just another party battleground and not a matter of creating some type of neutral place for nation building bills.