OK so today I was at the local mall (owned and operated by Simon Mall Co.) and i was smoking a cigarrete outside near the ashtray with all the other smokers. One of the mall security guards comes to the group of smokers and starts threatening to have us all arrested on trespassing warrants. I gave one of the other smokers a look that you give someone you know when you both think a guy is a prick. He looked at my face and said GTFO of the mall property. I pointed out that I was in The smoking section and that the sign above me said you could smoke near the ashtray/outpost. He then gets nasty and tells me if I ddint leave I was gonna get arrested. Once again i told him I had a right to smoke in the "smoking" section and did not commit any crimes and was not trespassing. He then calls a cop out there and Now im starting to get irritated, I told the cop what was up and the cop said IDGAF This is private property we can do whatever we want to you and you cant do anything about it. I said thats fucked up. So he put me in cuffs and said I was gonna be arrested. SO then he waits 5 minutes and comes back with a warning and lets me go but the warning states im not allowed on mall property for a whole year. I was just wondering If i could fight this if at all, Because Under my assumption they broke alot of laws.

1st- My 1st amendment rights were broken (facial expression is not a crime)
2nd- Im 18 and can legally smoke and was in the smoking section
3rd- I feel like i was intentionally harassed for no reason
4th- they never read me my rights as they put my handcuffs on, all they said was IDGAF what you think kid we can do whatever we want to whoever we want for any reason we like.

and although i didnt get arrested im pissed and needed to vent

In most states and municipalities these days, the miranda rights are "implied" which means the police assume you know them or they are printed out on your police report. It was a private property incident which means that the security guard had every right to eject you from the premises just for thinking you were funny looking with that gay fag in your mouth. The police officer was complying with his duty to act on a trespassing violation as suggested by the security guard. Meh.

Your 1st amendment rights were not broken.
You can only legally smoke in the smoking section if they give you permission to do so. Its a private business on private property. They don't need a reason to eject you from the premises.
You may have been intentionally harassed for no reason, but there is a fine line between ethical and legal.
The cop had a right to handcuff you as you were technically trespassing and being uncooperative. The best thing you could've done was to keep your mouth shut and left after the security fag told you to leave. NEVER argue with a cop.

Yeah, basically what was said above. Shitty situation, but private actors don't have to let you on their property (with a possible exception if you can show that you were targeted for being part of a protected class, e.g. minority). As far as reading your rights, the failure to do so only means they couldn't have used something you said afterwards against you in a criminal proceeding.

F*CK pigs

Sounds to me like some angsty teenager bullshit to me. They have every right to throw off their property, just like you have the right to when you decide to own land an pay for it.

Shit like this leads to DON'T TAZ ME BRO videos on YouTube.

What?

This.

That don't taze me bro thing was a little excessive.

Just as a point of information, any law enforcement agent is not required to read you the miranda rights unless they are placing you under arrest. They can cuff you and put you in the back of the car, but until they inform you that they are going to be taking you in they are then required to read them to you.

BS. This is not true. Not where I live. Where I live they can just take you in. I asked a judge about it and she said it was 'implied' and that they don't have to give me my rights.

Im just thinking c ouldnt they have actually gone and arrested a shoplifter or something, I was smoking outside minding my own business. I think this county is Dirty with its police force, They were definately trying to meet a ticket or arrest quota cause from what ive heard this isnt the only time this has happened at this mall.

A good lawyer might be able to make a case for harassment against the mall. The cops are legally in the clear. Miranda rights do not have to be read to you at all contrary to popular belief. The Miranda rights are only necessary if they want to use anything you say against you. If you confess to a crime while in custody and the cops didn't read you your rights, the confession cannot be used.

If the mall had a designated smoking area, and you were not in violation of any mall policies you would have a leg to stand on. A security officer cannot ask you to leave a mall simply because he doesn't like you. Usually the only ways to ban someone from a mall is to catch them breaking a mall policy, or the management needs to serve them a trespass notice.

yah they gave me the trespass notice but Like i said i was not doing anything wrong. I kept asking and i got repliees such as

"Its private property we can do whatever we want when we want"
"I don't Like Jimi Hendrix (points at my shirt) then says that alone gives him rights to server me a trespass notice.

Cops normally only have quotas for moving violations but it may be different in your area.

Sounds like the guard is just a prick. Everyone is right about it being private property and such.

As a Security Dept. Director take my advise: Professionally contact their director of security and express your concern. Do not raise your voice or use any bad language. Explain what happened in detail but convince him you felt threatened by the security officer's actions and you feared for your safety. Explain that you, your family and your friends will no longer shop there because of what happened.

Best case they terminate and or discipline the security officer. Worst case is the director listens to your call and makes you feel like he will take care of it but then afterwords he laughs it off. If their director is a sworn police officer I wouldn't even call, they don't fair well with public complaints. Most malls have a sub station with at least one sworn officer, this allows them to deputize security officers during an emergency with arresting powers (Michigan Law, may not be for your state). Normally the sworn officer assigned to a mall post is new to the force or ready to retire. If they are new then they normally are pricks looking to use their cuffs as much as possible. They don't see much action at a mall so the little things are addressed more often than normal.

If it were me I'd drop it. I would also continue to shop there. If they recognized you then you could get a citation for trespassing. I'd be shocked if they would bring on charges for trespassing but like I said that cop might be a douche.



Malls are shitty anyways, F*CKING asians and their free samples.

Thanks Guys for all the advice. I might just drop it Cause its not that big of a deal I hadnt been to a mall in like 2 years anyways. I dont normally go there so its not like Im going to be in trouble. Also the cop was a young Douchebag On a power trip.

Figures. You could of jerked him off and he might of dropped it to. Cop wiener tastes good.

I AM A HOMOSEXUAL, not worth the effort to try and do anything.


Like Jet and I said, the Miranda rights only relate to using something you said against you in court. If they don't arrest you, or do but don't try to use anything you said against you as evidence in court, then you have no Miranda rights. But if the prosecutor does try to use something you said against you then the Miranda rights are never implied. I don't know what went on in your case, but it's settled law that in order for that kind of evidence to be admissible you have to have been Mirandized and given unambiguous acknowledgement that you understood and waived those rights. This has nothing to do with the validity of the arrest or of a trial based on other evidence, though.


They can tell you to leave whenever they want, unfortunately. The only way you might have a case is, like I mentioned before, if you can convince a judge/jury that you were descriminated against because of something like your race, in violation of state/federal statute. Otherwise, private property owners can revoke your permission to be on their property whenever they want.