So I got into an argument with a friend of my wife yesterday about using computers in school. This is an elementary school teacher and she believes that computers should not be allowed in school before college. Basically she thinks that computers are a crutch and letting children use them retards their development.

I pointed out several studies that have been done by both government and private institutions which indicate that the earlier children are exposed to computers the faster they develop, one of which was a very good EU study where they tracked multiple groups of students in a very large double blind study and the results were undeniable. Needless to say she did not like this very much.

I went on to point out that fine motor skills like those required to use a pen do not really develop until a child is 9-10 years old, but a human child can learn to read as young as 3 years old. Because of this forcing children to learn how to write words with a pen to communicate at young ages is definitely stunting their development, and it would be better if they were allowed to type on a computer to learn grammar until their fine motor skills caught up with their level of comprehension. At that point learning to write would be a small task instead of something that we now spend years drilling our young students on.

I went on to say that a huge benefit of delaying the whole pen and paper thing would be that we could spend more time at a younger age teaching other subjects such as math and science. Since young children are capable of learning at a much faster rate than older children due to the nature of our brain development it would be far more efficient for us to focus on things that the human child is capable of quickly digesting at that time rather than beating them up over sloppy penmanship.

Needless to say she now thinks I am a huge ass and my wife is pissed at me for getting into the discussion in the first place. I think this gal is an idiot who wants to be living in the 1900's because she is technically illiterate and wants to make sure everyone else is as well so she feels normal.

So what do you all think?

I'm with you, cuz.

nice little things in there. if you look at a couple of commercials, they are trying to get kids to read and understand words at a very very young age now. They are starting at 9 months and some kids are reading whole books that you and I wouldn't be reading at that time. (A 5 year old reading Moby Dick and I believe it was either a 1 or 2 year old reading Charolittes Web) so next time she wasn't to like argue something about reading, maybe if you look into this you could throw this up in her face some more.

Idk about your high schools around where you live (I know you said elementry school but she said that they shouldn't use it till college) but in my high school and even my middle school, some of your things were required to be typed up on a computer. So i don't see why we don't start teaching kids now. Teaching them how to use Word, Excel, or Powerpoint because well I am going through this as I am a college student and I know some students around me who can write perfectly in cursive but can't type a sentence on the computer without having to look down a few times and even then it takes them a minute. So honestly teaching them how to work on the computers and typing would help them to get their papers written faster (typed faster but you get my drift) and truthfully not letting them use computers is hurting them in their future because let's face it, Computers are the future no matter how you slice it.

why does it matter what a woman thinks?

Agree with both Shredder and SK!

Lol.
I'm with you guys.

I have really bad handwriting all my life, it stayed the same since 1st grade and without computer use to print stuff out I would have failed a lot of classes just because my report looked like shit, so I think computers are a great help

Why memorize the names of all 50 states when I can google them?

That's a waste of hours of learning, that could be accomplished in two seconds of searching on modern connections.

Shit like that is a ruination of the educational process, and a main reason why I believe the US school systems are falling behind more modern countries, aka South Korea.

Bro, those old school teachers iritate the F*CK out of me (you need to know math cuz you use it everyday) Bitch, I know computers, hence with excel, I never need to know how to do math.

You can't reason with those 60 year old plus teachers, they think everything is still the way it was when they were a kid.
They know alot about their subject matter, but they do not keep up with the times, or technology.

You guys are right, We need to be researching technology as a source of education, not these old bible stories that public ed teaches.

Thanks to me using computers at a young age, I have learned enough to sustain my life without having to work a regular job.

My mom is a 3rd generation, everything-but-PhD 3rd grade teacher and she's been teaching hypercard (a reeeallly simple powerpoint/hyperlinking mac program) for YEARS. She swears by it, because it teaches the kids essential skills like typing, relational documents, design & layout, and for many of the kids who don't have computers at home, just the simple mouse/keyboard interaction.

She herself is learning the finer points of search skills (yes there are skills to be developed in internet search) and will be teaching the kids that soon for research on reports, etc.

Other things like using cuisenare (?) rods for math/geometry as an alternate to pencil & paper math she's 100% behind as well.

I know kind of off subject but kind of involved in this but I stopped learning Cursive in the 3rd grade (I started learning it and they gave up that same year) was this the same for everybody else.

And yes I will say it again, Computers and the new techonlogy is here to stay. It is the present and the future of this Country and this world. That's why I'm a Computer Science major to cash in on the fun stuff.

Computers are a part of life and will be from now on so children need to learn to use them.

I can see the other side of the coin though, it just depends on how computers are used. Spellchecker needs to be disabled, kids need to memorize things to exercise their minds, and for god sakes if your handwriting looks the same as it did when you were in 1st grade you need some practice.

All things in moderation.

Well while they're great [computers] (I'm not taking sides). They [the kids] should be able to do stuff with and without the aide of computer, cause not every situation out there will there be a computer there to help.

1. She is an idiot. I believe that learning computer skills such as typing and what not are much more important than writing with pencil and paper. Look at the world today. No one writes anything out anymore. The only organizations that actually use pencil and paper are schools. Every other business just types everything. Emails, instant messaging. You can send anything you want across the internet at a much faster rate than anything that could travel through the mail.
2. Im just waiting for skynet to become self-aware.
3. I also stopped learning cursive in 3rd grade. After elementary school we stopped using it all together so there is really no point in it except to sign your name. And i see people my age signing there name in just regular writing. Its actually sad how the generations are loosing some of these skills.

Both sides are right. There are still a LOT of jobs out there that you won't be typing quite as much as you're writing. Some of them(like i've seen automotive techs use both) only use writing for a reference later on.

But I really think that teacher needs to do a couple internships during the summer at jobs that have nothing to do with teaching. Getting them started young is just going to improve their future. Whether it's for employment, or just personal. Why not start them young? That will just stunt their learning capabilities. Things tend to be learned quicker at a young age. But if you start teching them computers in highschool or college. It just gives them a limited amount of time to learn what they need to know. If you teach them young, they will learn fast and be ahead of the curve.

1) Computers like everything is good if it's not overdosed. They should be an additional tool that helps develop skills / knowledge, but they shouldn't totally replace old methods. Look at yourself - did you have comps at school from the very beginning and you're fine.
2) Copms play important role not only in the children's development process. Some researches proves that playing games slows the brain aging process. This is why dirtbag plays a lot.
3) When you're having threesome with your wife and her friend - don't discuss and do what you should do

this

okkkkkkk fine... Ill butt into this, seeing as how this is everything I am laerning and specializing in myself.. first background for you shredder since you're new here compared to most. Im a psych major or going to be soon enough. I think kung fu is in the same boat so he might be able to fix any errors if he even checks the forums but...

The problems with computers vs old school.

Todays society is built to be as entirely efficient as possible, to most if not close to all people being delayed in the slightest day to day activities is an irritation. Assuming darwin is right this is all because of the population explosions in the last couple hundred years and the need to do adapt to increases in desire and need in everything. Computers are an amazing source to help countermeasure this increase. Moving forward to most is meaning an increased dependency on computers, including even using them for young kids to teach.

"Old School" methods as described are seen as using pen and paper for most if not all learning.

Children are amazing factories for learning. In fact just for fun adn those who do not know, when you are first growing up you are viable for any language on the planet. Meaning a white english kid can be raised (if timing is right) by chinese parents and will be able to do everything in chinese as if he was actually chinese. You can sit by a kid for the first 3 years and watch their comprehension and language progress amazing, first in the coo/babble stage, then one word, then two words then single sentences..etc. Fine tuning motor skills are essential for the kid to not only learn but also to progress in life, and these fine tuning skills can be increasingly taught by the use of handscript via pens. Although kids can't really fine tune their writing skills for a long time, they evolve enough so to help the evolution of other skills such as hand eye coordination etc.

The second part of understanding this argument comes in the form of memory. Your memory is split into many variable stages. Obviosuly in order for you to recognize anything you must first sense it. Sensory memory lasts roughly a few seconds. In those few seconds you must decypher something as credible to keep before it goes onto short term memory, which lasts 30 seconds, and in those 30 seconds you must decide it to be worthy of long term for it to be attempted to implanted in your long term juices. The best memory practices involve using as many sensory aspects as possible in order to gather the most lasting encoding and also a good sleep so that it can be encoded, usually involves atleast 3 full cycles or 6'ish hours. This part I know for damn well because its why my memory is ridonculous. What does this have to do with teh argument you may ask. computers are amazing things, however they lack the ability to make use of as many sensory processes as writing. Some argue the other way, some dont' argue, but the truth of the matter is to most people Ive met within my own department the use of computers impairs their ability to understand as much, and in my department you need to learn fast or else you pretty much auto fail (its the smae across many if not all degree programs but we learn a LOT of indepth details about random shit)

To be truthful, computers allow kids to learn more faster, but they also don't allow their memories to fully develop as well as kids the old school ways. What way you take to teach your kids is raelly dependant upon how they are, and how they learn best, but that usually doesn't come till passed where we're talking. If i had to choose a way to teach my kid, it'd be pen and paper. because in the end, his dependency on computers to remind him of easy facts and use in calculations etc. would be nill and that allows for a more adaptable person. Arguments like this go either way which is mostly why we're in a stalemate with evolution currently because no one can pick a way, instead we just keep producing more useless studies to enforce either side (welcome to science..lol)

That teacher should be given a gold star for teaching kids to learn and not just to absorb and move on, your wife should probably get some good make up sex and you should probably take your pride away for a little bit.

P.S.

For those of you posting in the dream threads in ye ole pub may have seen my el oh el reply. While Im at it I'll explain that part as well.. during a full sleep cycle there is four stages. first stage of giong off, second stage of beta waves, third stage of large alpha waves, then REM. REM is where all dreaming occurs, if you don't make it to REM you don't dream. During REM your brain encodes all the information it gets daily, which is probably in excess of tens to hundreds of gigabytes. As you're solidifying your memory it is being cateogrized by the your keys to remembering it, This triggers further memories and further thoughts which most people see as a fluid dream. If you wake up during REM you experience massive fatigue since the cycle was interrupted. If you don't REM sleep for a while REM gets kicked forward more... To give an example when I start to pass out after being up a while I instantly fall into a trance dream state and when I wake up say 20 minutes later, I know Ive been dreaming.

Very nice snuggle! A lot of things I did not know So do you think, combining the 2 learning methods is a bad idea? Cuz I mean, at that age I don't think it would be much research, possibly just learning to navigate around normal programs like Word and things of that sort. Cuz I think that would be a good idea. It's not really for any learning purposes other than just learning the basis uses of a computer and things of that sort. Then once they are of the right age, they can expand from that area into whatever fits them(kind of like school, learn the basic things everyone should know, then once you move on you can kind of choose what things you want to pile on.) I don't know, just some of my thoughts on the subject.

I think every kid should learn to use a computer at an early age I just don't fully endorse it in a classroom setting because it "helps progress people faster"

Im an '86 baby and when I was in grade 4 before computers blew up I was already using one for games..lol. and then moreso in teh later grades to learn about them and their uses. Combining both methods makes the learning curve go by faster and easier, and also puts emphasis on old methods over dependency on a secondary brain.