That's what I said, it's in my post. I'm well aware that these are not very efficient with the technology that is in place, but if we are going to spend the money on fossil fuels, why not portion some of that money or expand funding for this to develop efficiency? I'm also aware of the start up costs. Any new technology has those. Once you get past those, however, the resulting efficiency and power production will result in money saved hand over fist.

pinky's, that is the exact problem. people aren't focusing on progressing with new research as much as they should, because people have gotten lazy and think fossil fuels are as good as we can get. society's mindset is vastly limiting our technological progression.

Agreed. That's the only reason I jumped into the convo here. I hadn't seen a post like the one I made and I feel that this is a valid point. If people and the government put as much energy into developing and innovating these ideas as they do arguing against them, we'd be damn near unstoppable, and our quality of life would greatly improve. I'm of the opinion that there is too much government, but even I would pay extra taxes NOW to see them make a better world for my kids. Hell, even if the government just made it a little easier for the private individual to utilize this technology. They are starting to give rebates to us when we use this technology for our private holdings, however, that is not enough.

How far does a disaster have to go before we wake the F*CK up and change things?!

I agree completely with all the points you made Pink.

Well, in my opinion here, it has to affect many people's lives - look at 9/11. It took a major attack such as that to make changes happen. I know it's a sad (and rather depressing) example but it's a good one.
Now the oil spill has affected many people on the coast, but do you see those people on TV? Adds on TV by the Government to employ them? Nope. Sure, the news bashes BP, but they leave out the impact this is having on the average citizen. people are loosing jobs due to this spill, and BP is taking FOREVER to fix this. They deployed this drilling technology before they had the technology to adequately back it up and secure it. Now look what's happened - but wait. It's not affecting most of America, so who cares?

Neither the Obama administration nor BP really are interested in doing whatever it takes to stop the leak.

Obama wants to use this as a reason we need to cut down on drilling elsewhere (note the WSJ news alert I got recently):

He will use this to push the need for "green jobs" -- which are good, but if they're unprofitable, make no sense. (Don't flame me, I know some green jobs are profitable)

I wrote this long ass essay on facebook the other day but part of it said this:



At the same time, BP is not actually responsible for the clean up (despite what you've heard), so they have no real financial incentive to stop it any quicker than they have to. The fact is, that after the Exxon Valdez spill, the US set up a taxpayer funded (via taxes) fund that goes to situations like these. BP (owners) / Transocean (operators) are not responsible for cleaning up anything outside of the local area. Theres documentation to show this, but its probably over the top -- it's called the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.

Don't get fooled by double-speak by the Obama administration of the BP execs -- saying things like "they'll pay any legitimate claim". Or we'll hold BP responsible to the "fullest extent of the law" -- both of which are true, but neither of which mean BP will be picking up the tab for the recovery of the area -- that will be you and I.

The Obama administration handling of this is inept at best. Just ask former Clinton strategist (and Old School cast member) James Carville.

That's ridiculous.... we can't hold a $16,000,000,000 company responsible for their own problems? Last time they were fined what, $50 million in Texas? That didn't even phase them except for bad press. They should dip into their giant profit pot and fork some over to help this problem. The general public should NOT have to pay for a screw up by BP & Co., financially or economically.

As you said, the US is the top country in terms of engineering, we should be able to solve a leak.

I'm kicking myself in the head reading this.

I have my own opinions on multi-billion dollar corporations, though what they have in their net worth doesn't mean they automatically should get the target on the back for the bill paying.

They may provide the money for operation but are they truly doing any of the legit operation of the rig? Certainly not, so how are they responsible? By giving a dollar? If we ran the course that whoever is the owner is the guilty party than a lot of fucked up shit would have gone down.

I'm surprised I stayed out of this thread this long, except the part where I wanted people to stop being cunts.

I'm not saying that It's just BP's fault (note &Co) - But I think that those associated with operation should be held financially responsible for this mess.


While it's not entirely BP's fault, they should at least be trying a little harder to solve this, along with the operators of the oil rig.

I'm not entirely sure about the structure of the oil rig (who operates, etc) but to me in effect this is the same as any other national corporation making sure there is no child labour occuring in the manufacturing plants the toys are made at - they should be able to inspect the "plant" or "rig" to assure that it's up to standards. While you say it's not BP's fault, should they really have turned a blind eye?

did you guys read about the part where BP bussed in over 400 people for Obama's visit to make it look like they are doing more than they really are? did you read about how BP and USCG Admiral both said the "top kill" had worked when in fact it hadn't? the manipulation going on here is amazing.


to help answer questions about who's fault it is let me explain a little. BP was the overall "owner" or the company who contracted with the others and paid for the drilling and operation of that rig. no, they weren't constantly telling everyone what to do, but BP had final say in every decision made on that rig. i spoke to a person very close to those companies, and they knew they hit a big oil/gas pocket, which can lead to explosions of this kind. they knew this about 24 hours before the explosion, but BP chose not to shut down or modify operation due to the pocket; the result was the explosion. even after the first explosion happened, BP still waited before they attempted to use the single blow out preventer which failed. so yes, it is AT LEAST partially BP's fault, but personallay, i think it is mostly if not entirely BP's fault.

let me explain a little on how they knew about the potential for the explosion. during drilling operations, a mud slurry (mixture) is pumped through the drilling pipe, which helps turn the drill bit and remove drill tailings. this mud is recirculated during drilling. when they hit an oil/gas pocket, oil and/or gas come back up with the recirculating mud. the man/men responsible for mixing and maintaining the mud are experts at detecting when there is oil/gas in the mud, especially when there is a lot of it, because everyone in the oil business knows from years and years of experience these types of explosions are likely to happen. BP was made aware of the situation, there was an arguement on the rig, and since BP was paying everyone's bills they made the final decision that everything should proceed. this is why i signed that petition i posted a few days ago. these people should not receive a dime of tax payer money for this incident when they are that neglegent.

From an enterprise risk management standpoint this falls under operational risk and it sounds like BP failed big time. Either they didn't realize the extent of possible damage to the environment and local business or they just didn't care because of bottom line thinking. IMO, this is totally unacceptable.

I'm really hoping some sort of preventive measures start to be imposed on big companies especially oil and investment firms.

True, the taxpayers are footing the bill right now, but (according to Reuters) Congress did increase the liability cap (the amount the government can fine BP for damages) from $75 million to $10 Billion. True, the taxpayers will probably pay for anything beyond the current cap, but to say that we exclusively will be paying for the cleanup isn't entirely accurate.

Bringing this thread to the forefront again, I do not for once have an argument or a problem. I saw this online today, and it's so simple and elegant that I was like, FACE PALM. Talk about redneck American ingenuity...I just hope these guys have good lawyers so they can benefit from their find. This could definitely help with the problem of surface oil, and for anything under the surface, it could be modified into a weighted net. It is also organic, non toxic and CHEAP. Have a look:

http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil/

yeah, i saw this a couple weeks ago. the problem is they don't allow any loose material on open water, because it is considered "uncontrolled". if they put it in nets it could have some potential, but then the cost goes up. not sure i should be mentioning it here, but sample products from my company were supposed to be dragged through some underwater oil plumes today by an ROV under the direction of the cheif scientist in charge of the spill. hoping to hear some results tomorrow, if the samples did get tested.

Way cool. I understand about open water debris. Let us know how the results of your companies experiment went.

have you heard about the other rig they found leaking recently??

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/another ... ll_ne.html

No! Seriously?!

Well i'm not gonna say much but i will give my 2 cents like the rest of you.

Electricity is being harnessed through so many more ways then we had ever imagined earlier,
and even though an electrical car can't perform as well as a car fueled by gasoline can doesn't mean
that we shouldn't stop trying to improve the electrical car or the gasoline driven one for that matter.

BP should take some of the responsibility but the main thing is not to find the party responsible
but the solution to fix the problem at hand, so instead of them being worried about the money they will
loose they should be using every resource they have to find a solution. I know Norway ain't the greatest country
in the world but im pretty sure that we would help if we were asked,we have been drilling off-shore for the last 35 years
and we might have stumbled on to something in those 35 years that can help.

We need fossil fuel because we have made ourselves dependent on them, and i know that
there are companies working on it so that we will spill less shit into our environment and use less fuel
but still getting the same effect.

I will end my thread by saying , I'm not a hippie nor ever will i be one, i know this world will probably outlast
me and everyone of us, but i want to leave more then just smoke and ashes for the future generations to come.

AMEN.

Agreed.