Anyone else have strong feelings about this?

I don't care about many things but the thought of this guy getting a second chance in the NFL makes me want to throw up my protein shake.

I don't understand all these people talking about second chances. I just don't get it. He had everything and messed it up. Let him go find something else to do now.

I was thinking today how funny he'd end up in Philly where fans cheer if someone gets hurt on the other team.

I am from Philadelphia. I love Philly sports teams -- a die hard Eagles fan year after year. I was going to stick with them this year when they let Brian Dawkins go to the Broncos but now that they signed Vick, I'm turning in my jersey for the season, and probably next. My girlfriend was at the preseason game last night and said that a number of the fans took off their Eagles jerseys when they heard about the signing.

Its a disappointing day to be an Eagles fan.

I've yet to figure out why people care so much. A AFRICAN AMERICAN got caught dog fighting. Not exactly a revelation.

I dont give a shit if its a redneck, a AFRICAN AMERICAN, or a camel F*CKER. A convicted felon shouldn't be allowed the privilege to play in the NFL no matter how talented he is especially someone who has been found guilty of killing dogs in such brutal ways as hanging, drowning, and shooting. People talk about remorse and redemption but this guy is only sorry he got caught. Yet he still gets an NFL contract. I'm sick of these idiots who play professional sports, have everything handed to them and yet still do the stupidest F*CKING things and get forgiven again and again. It's getting real old and all these 2nd, 3rd, and 4th chances are not helping younger athletes from engaging in the same behavior.

There have been people that have committed murder than have served less time.This guy has lost millions of dollars in endorsements and basically had his life ruined.Now im not saying i agree with the things he did but dam whats a AFRICAN AMERICAN got to do to make amends.Lets look at Steve mcnair,this guy fucks around on his wife with a loony and gets killed and we honor him like he was a saint.I say the guy has paid his debt to society.Whether he is truly sorry and forgiven for what he did will be between him and the almighty.

I guess that's where we differ. My disbelief in gods, sins, and morality leave me with the belief that those who are so far removed from 'normal' society shouldn't be allowed to participate in it on any level. Yes, some of course are remorseful but IMO forgiveness is not for the person that is given forgiveness but those who wish to give it.

Kind of a contradiction but whatever works for ya.

Vision i have no idea what you do or what you may want to do in life, but brother politics is your calling.

Yea but I'd have to run as a Democrat and that would annoy the shit out of me.

Most people consider me a lifetime student.

I'm a math major (logic, game theory, probability are my favorite stuff) with interests in philosophy (particularly existentialism), behaviorism, and finance (particularly derivatives)




No. Unacceptance of morality does not infer a preference for anarchy and chaos. One can accept a need for social order and not recognize morality as a basis for establishing and sustaining that social order. Put another way, society doesn't exist because of morality, morality exists because of society and the reason why modern day societies are in such disarray it is because of humanities disregard for the Responsibility of Freedom*. Once people (a massive majority of humanity) start to actually take responsibility for their freedom and acknowledge what it is they truly value then and only then will people find what is morally and ethically important to them.

*Responsibility of Freedom - In this sense is much broader than the political term and I am particularly referring to existentialism and the consideration that freedom and responsibility are intertwined and therefore the same thing.




tl:dr

"...to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that is very hard to do." - Bruce Lee

I would argue with you, but once you said "full time student" and "interest in philosophy", I realized that I haven't put in enough hours at Denny's to hang with you.

Just kidding. Your definition of "Responsibility of Freedom" is damn near the dictionary definition of morality. Also, does this perfect world of responsible freedom have no room for forgiveness? This utopia sounds a bit shady to me.

Also, this has nothing to do with the original post and has deteriorated into a typical Durango thread. A responsible admin should put this thread down like an injured dog.

LOL, yes this has deviated but a Durango post would have to links to sites all over the interweb.

I can see the point I was trying to make has not been seen but that's ok.

To answer your question yes there is room for forgiveness of course there is but that's not what I was saying. In my earlier post I was questioning the authenticity of altruistic acts. Why are people willing to forgive him? How much is their forgiveness for him and how much of it is for themselves?

It's obvious my views are anti-social especially for living in a pre-dominantly Christian society where forgiveness is preached on a weekly basis. I don't hold human life on a pedestal as high as most people. It's up there but at the same time I believe there are those out there whose actions have proven that they should no longer be a part of main stream society or in this case be given a 2nd chance to play in the NFL.

Anyone who studies human behavior and psychology knows what type of people participate in dog fighting rings. People don't like to admit it but a lot of people's behaviors are textbook. Obviously Vick 'got lucky' and channeled his behaviors through football which isn't that surprising given the violence of the sport. However, it wasn't enough and he continued his behaviors through dog fighting. He got caught and now he's sorry he got caught, that's my belief.

Do I hope he gets help and realizes the senselessness of his acts and the underlying causes of his behavior?? Yes.

Do I hope he can take this oppurtunity and help others who are headed down the same path? Yes.

Do I care if he goes off and makes a bunch of money anywhere else except for the NFL? No.

Do I think he should have the privilege of playing in the NFL or any professional sports for that matter? No. It just repeats the pattern that we see every season of professional athletes getting away with crimes with a slap on the wrist and paving the way for generations of our youth to continue the pattern.


I won't delve into it anymore except for this:

Freedom and Responsibility does not lead to a 'utopia'. It does lead to everyone being accountable for their actions no matter what. The basis of freedom is choice and everyone at any moment, doing anything have choices on their actions, the feelings they have, and how to perceive what is going on around them.

I don't want to go too in depth because in all honestly I'd just be regurgitating existentialist ideals and well there are plenty of sites that can do that. Although I will say that the problem is with modern America is that people feel the need to say one thing and do another and/or wear a mask to hide their true selves believing that this is the best way to live their life. This is not authentic living and these people are not being authentic with themselves or others and therefore will always experience anguish. A prime example of this are people who claim to be religious but consistently do not follow thier religious beliefs and try to hide their actions in an attempt to appear as someone worth respecting. That's just one example and the one I use the most because I have a thing against religion but that's me.

basically Vick knew his actions were wrong...and if in fact he got caught he knew he would suffer for it.

His second chance is that he is allowed to roam free, not to play football.

I'm not a football fan at all...so I don't even watch it, but I think it's going to be very entertaining to see what protesters are going to do at Eagles games.

I don't see him as a football player, but as an animal torturer. (and I'm pretty sure from what I've read on the PETA website it's far from over)

The funny thing is, no one really gives a shit about PETA. He might get some snaps in the 3rd or 4th preseason game, but after that, he won't have the chance to see any play time until week 6 or later. So all the protesting they will do is for a mediocre quarterback that is only good for running the ball sit on the bench for a minimum of 6 weeks until he is reinstated fully into the league, he is also making less than their kicker so he could sit on their bench the entire year get 5 snaps in game and they got their money's worth out of him. On top of everything else he probably only going to be there for one year. There is an option for a second, but it's likely that he'll end up on another team.

That's exactly why I don't agree with him playing. Like you said he's barely going to play but he is going to be in team practices getting back in shape and getting his shit together.

Their basically paying him $1.6 million to workout and get himself ready for a possible starting position the following season and allow the protesters to get it all out of their system this year so by next year when he takes a more prominent role for another team there won't be much backlash compared to the protesting that will take place this year. Although people will aways protest him playing let's face it the brunt of it is going to happen this year and if Vick and the NFL stick to their guns long enough the protesters will eventually go away or at least most of them. That's my take anyway.

Unless Donovan gets injured, Vick will never start in Philly. Vick may run better than him, but he can't pass for shit. I read somewhere that he has the worst completion % in the history of the NFL over a certain amount of games started. If he wants a shot at starting somewhere he'll need to be traded, cut, or opt out of his contract, and I can't see him getting cut unless he does some dumb shit again. I wish him the best of luck and hope he gets a starting position on a team so I can watch him fail! He failed at VT vs FSU in the championship game, He failed at ATL vs CAR with the same QBs, and now he'll fail at his next team because I honestly don't see him getting very many snaps at Philly outside of the offense trying to trick an opposing team or if they throw him into a new position.

^^^^It's a disappointing day to find out a pu$$y like you was a Eagles fan^^^^

Go jump on the Steeler's bandwagon you retard

We can throw snowballs at Santa, we can grab Michael Irvin with 2 players and slam him headfirst into the turf giving him a major concussion and ruining his career, we can cheer when opposing players get hurt on the field, we have a head coach who has 2 drug addicted sons in and out of rehab and jail.

But HOLY F*CKING SHIT!!! he had dog fights!!!!! I am quitting my team and not wearing my jersey

I dont agree with what he did, my fiance' is a dog breeder and I love my dog. But the only reason upstanding moral fans like you complain about dogs getting killed and not humans getting murdered EVERYDAY is because you are desensitived to it.

You want to make a statement, go down to the inner cities of Philly and clean up the streets: little kids, elderly, teenagers, and DOGS are getting killed down there regularly.

But I applaud you, you're going to be a quitter and stop wearing a jersey because you're so damn perfect you cant give a man a second chance.

Wow, you got kinda hype huh?

I'm not saying I'm perfect, the Eagles are perfect, and certainly not trying to say that Philly fans are perfect, but like it or not sports figures are role-models and playing professional sports is a privilege - a privilege many have had taken away for drunk driving, illegal drug use, gambling etc - and one I wholeheartedly believe should have been taken away permanently from Ron Mexico, er I mean Michael Vick.

Also, not to turn this into a personal thing, but its kind of a weird assumption that I don't care about humans getting murdered, don't you think? I mean you don't even know me. If Vision made a post called "The high murder rate in Philadelphia" do you think I'd go in there and be like "F*CK the murders in Philly, you know what I'm concerned about -- Michael Vick." ?? Get serious kid.

I'm all about second chances, believe me, I've needed more than my share of second chances thus far in my life. There are things, however, that I (personally) don't you don't get second chances for -- the privilege of playing professional sports after being convicted of killing dogs and running an interstate dogfighting ring is just one -- maybe your standards are more lax -- whatever, no big deal.

Don't mind GreaterBad. In case you haven't noticed yet, he's a pu$$y and nobody here likes him.

Football is a sport that allows men to relive their lost dreams. It sucks. They're overpaid and overvalued. F*CK football players, all of them.