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Server Ingame Money Management
http://n00bfest.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=40331		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SEIJIsaurusREX [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Server Ingame Money Management
It's become to the point where money management has become useless in the server. If a team loses 3 rounds in a row, the opposing team is awarded a instant 16000. If a admin is down money, he'll award himself money. If a admin feels he wants a ak47, he'll spawn himself one. Now I understand the reasoning behind all this, is for the purpose of balancing teams and not leading one team to severe disadvantages. Finally, this also renders the bet mod useless, for its intense purpose was high risk, high reward, with that being removed by constant money giving. This does remove a huge part of the economy metagame that's involved in CS. As a result, I suggest the following:

1) Make it that everyone spawns with 16000 immediately. This removes the need to worry about admin use of increasing money to designated teams, lightens a small portion of work admins do, and if a single player needs money, all he/she needs to do is join spec/join team.

2) Stop this economy fixing permanently. n00bfest did start off like this, with no need for money giving. People need to suck it up and not rely on it. You're down money? Save up one round and build up for full equipment the next. There are downsides to this, being that newer players will have a learning curve, but that's the purpose of us as a community, is to drive knowledge between each other.

Please discuss and leave only constructive criticism please.
Author:  fomenta [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
So you, lemme see how this works:
1. You were on the stacked winning team
2. An admin gave money to the losing team
3. Dien = rageface

close?

(In other news, I wouldn't be against 16k to start)
Author:  SEIJIsaurusREX [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Not at all, far from the story actually. Just want to suggest a way to consolidate the efforts put into the money management. Please, no need to troll fomenta.

And as hard as it may be to believe, I used to be a admin, so I know there's a bit of work to be done managing a server.
Author:  Kwang! [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Maybe without betmod the reg will go up :P
Author:  JoeMamma [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
My statement came out all-sorts of wrong, and I apologize -- wasn't trying to make it sound so pissy, but that's what it ended up doing.
Author:  SEIJIsaurusREX [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Wow, can you calm down Joe Mamma?? What is the meaning of this, this post was supposed to be constructive and give a thought process to the way ingame money is being handled. Let me be a bit clear for those who don't have the literary skill to read:

1) Everyone has money all the time

2) Everyone earns money

That make things easier?? I asked for constructive criticism, not full on rage. If you feel my opinion was too much, lock the thread already.

EDIT: And to make another thing clear, I have been on the side of losing teams plenty of times. I make the genuine effort to switch when needed, and I have made conscious efforts to not be a try hard in servers like I used to, running around with p90's and mac10's on occasions, with people like Hooker and Loke calling me out to play better. So before you run your mouth as if I'm a elitist player, please know what I'm doing nowadays rather than following on past notions.
Author:  fomenta [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Like I said, I wouldn't be against 16k to start, but giving out cash is the easiest way to balance out the teams when they're only a little bit off.
Author:  Gman [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Why are you flaming him for making a suggestion that he spent time thinking about and posting in an intelligent manner?

Joe: grow the F*CK up.

dien: I don't want to lose the pistol round, which is why I don't want to get rid of 800 starting money. As CorpseHumper once said, "this isn't l337-fest" -- if you want to spend time managing your money and earning weapons, that's what competitive environments are for and I'll stand by that. Having another way to manage team stacking and ease the overall level of butthurtery that comes from such stackage actually makes admins' lives easier.
Author:  Rokatanski [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
I don't give moneys till 6-0 or so. If more of the "better" players swapped sides a little more often, less money would need to be handed out. I've personally seen most of the "better" players wait till they die at 15 -1 before theyre willing to swap teams. It's the old "give and take" take a few for the team in the interest of balance, and the team will have to give out less cash.
Author:  Hooker [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
I use money as a quick fix to see if the teams are even or if I need to move people. I can usually tell if its going to be a steamroll, and those times I'll hand it out at 3. Otherwise its 4, then I start switching.

I give myself money if I think me having a gun alone will help even the teams while having the rest of the players progress naturally ( I suck with pistols and I'm useless to my team until I get an AK and armor.)

Moral of the story is this: we're running a pub. Most of the good players don't try terribly hard and most of the bad don't understand the concept of saving for later. You can't depend on those random pubs to buy armor and a deag the first two rounds after losing pistol so that they can come back and vie for third round. More likely than not, unless by rare chance that the teams are really even, team that won the pistol round will landslide for a few rounds until an admin intervenes.

But I agree with gman... if you want to play into the money flow metagame stick with competitive play. Money is a really useful asset in my arsenal as an admin, I'd hate to see it taken away.
Author:  SEIJIsaurusREX [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Appreciate the feedback so far gents.

Gman: I had a feeling the pistol round would be a factor behind not implementing a 16k start money pool.

Rok: Noted. I've made efforts to switch often, I'll make a further effort to communicate/incite the better players to switch often alongside when needed.

Hooker: That's what I'd like to pass onto the regulars who don't have the same sense of keen ownership over their money. I've felt a sense of accomplishment of passing on tribal knowledge amongst the n00bs who have played within my circle, and I think everyone would benefit from it. I agree 100% that the economy metagame should be reserved for competitive play, I just wanted to see a stance on whether how clear the higher ups are in regards to the "money game", whether we should preserve it or kill it off. It seems though, from varying opinions that it's a "toin coss."
Author:  Kwang! [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Should this become a future debate for whatever reason it is possible to set the pistol round and however many rounds you like as non-16k rounds.
Author:  Genocide [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Money management is an issue in competitive gameplay, I understand some people enjoy that aspect of the game but when you have a server full of 28 players it can sometimes be difficult on certain maps I.E Aztec, The T's get screwed on that map over and over again if they lose a few rounds into the start of the map especialy the ones who actually try and push. It becomes way to one sided as far as money is concerned very quickly. The give money / weapon command is good for balance in certain situations.

I'll be the first to say i use this command to give myself money when im broke and ive died a few times and cant get buy money. Do I feel that giving myself, other players or teams money is game breaking? No it keeps it fun and a little more balanced than anything else.

We play on the main to have fun no one likes being broke especialy on maps that are one sided. If you really want to to play the money game maybe on the upcoming servers we can try to do something different.
Author:  Tazzaler [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Do what I do, I buy the guns I like to shoot when in the pub and rush.

only time I give two thoughts about what I buy is the new funmaps server...which is silly.

In the end you're only as good as your trigger finger.
Author:  fomenta [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
Giving out (not taking) money remains the easiest and least controversial way to (attempt to) balance teams. IMO, on our pub, balanced teams are more important than supporting money strategy.
Author:  iceman [ Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
fomenta wrote:
Giving out (not taking) money remains the easiest and least controversial way to (attempt to) balance teams. IMO, on our pub, balanced teams are more important than supporting money strategy.


Yes, but this is a suggestion to help balance teams more and make it so only the top fraggers will have to switch every so often. Giving out 16k to everyone makes the map fair from the get go, everyone can buy what they please.

This is a lot more balanced than one team winning pistol, then winning the second round, and the third, and fourth, and fifth.

This happens because no one on the losing team wants to save their money all at once and people have to constantly switch in and out of teams and from people giving certain teams money all the time.

This will also prevent higher admins from just joining the server and giving themselves money or weapons every single round even though there are people who have no cash and are watching this thinking WTF, he just gives himself shit every single time and I have to earn my money or wait til i get raped 4-5 rounds in a row to get enough for a gun.

I understand Gman's statement about wanting to keep pistol round, but that's practically what Warmup is with infinite nades and only armor with whatever pistol you choose to buy.

I know a lot of you are talking about competitive gameplay and dien talked about the economy in game and whatnot, but this isn't to make it more of a "competitive" server. This suggestion is just to lessen the headache of trying to keep peoples cash even and keep people happy with money, and will only require people to switch teams (this will result in less of this as well since one side won't get nearly as far ahead monetary-wise). It will also prevent admins from giving only themselves money or guns and others seeing these actions and seeing those admins as selfish or greedy. Because there won't be a need to give yourself money when you start with 16k, and the only time you would need to give yourself a weapon is if you're on a certain side and the gun you want is unique to the other side (ex: Ak47 is Unique to T's, and the M4 is unique to CT's).
Author:  fomenta [ Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
iceman wrote:
This will also prevent higher admins from just joining the server and giving themselves money or weapons every single round even though there are people who have no cash and are watching this thinking WTF, he just gives himself shit every single time and I have to earn my money or wait til i get raped 4-5 rounds in a row to get enough for a gun.


I agree, this would be annoying.

iceman wrote:
I understand Gman's statement about wanting to keep pistol round, but that's practically what Warmup is with infinite nades and only armor with whatever pistol you choose to buy.


Not really, warmup is a clusterfuck. Pistol round and the round or two after that make people use different guns since they don't have 16k.

iceman wrote:
I know a lot of you are talking about competitive gameplay and dien talked about the economy in game and whatnot, but this isn't to make it more of a "competitive" server. This suggestion is just to lessen the headache of trying to keep peoples cash even and keep people happy with money, and will only require people to switch teams (this will result in less of this as well since one side won't get nearly as far ahead monetary-wise).


Everytime I play, there is cash flying all over the place -- its like Obama came to our server. If you don't agree, then you must not play play with Dirk, Purple Dildo, Rok, Ode, Omega or Coach, since combined they've given out cash more than 60 THOUSAND times. I'm not sure why you think its such a headache to give out money. If giving out cash to the losing team is such a hassle, then its hard to understand how they've done it so much. If there was a real hassle, I'm sure the people who have given out cash 10 thousand plus times each would say something -- not someone who has only given it out 290 times.

iceman wrote:
It will also prevent admins from giving only themselves money or guns and others seeing these actions and seeing those admins as selfish or greedy. Because there won't be a need to give yourself money when you start with 16k, and the only time you would need to give yourself a weapon is if you're on a certain side and the gun you want is unique to the other side (ex: Ak47 is Unique to T's, and the M4 is unique to CT's).


Yep, I'd agree this is annoying and should be stopped in many cases. (I think a fair general rule would be for generals and above to be able to do this, anyone with the cash commands below general should stick to giving cash to entire (losing) teams, or the entire server in general.

---

But we understood your guys points I think -- but for the reasons listed in this thread we've just decided not to go that way right now.
Author:  Crzyninja [ Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
i think only generals and above are the only people that can give weapons and honestly its never really bugged me that they give themsleves a weapon somtimes they even give the entire team that weapon. and as for money whats wrong with giving cash to a team thats getting raped most of the time people whine about switching teams.
Author:  iceman [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
No one ever said anything was wrong with giving the losing team money. This was just a suggestion so that people didn't HAVE to do that anymore.
Author:  acid_rain [ Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Server Ingame Money Management
The only thing I don't like is when someone first joins the server and a team may be down by one or two rounds and they give 16k cash to the team they join for no apparent reason. People must think I'm joking or something when I ask them why they do that, but I'm not.

That reminds me. I have some work to do tonight.
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